From T. Paine at Saving Common Sense:
Once again it seems America has come completely unhinged, with the help of the mainstream “un-biased” media there to fan the flames of our own cultural destruction. Sadly, racism has always been a problem in our nation, and around the world, for that matter. Even more sadly, it will always be present in our society to at least a hopefully minor extent. It is an inexcusable evil that, when left unchecked, has resulted in the dehumanization of others so that they could be exploited, enslaved, and even murdered. Even more sadly, the number of people enslaved today throughout the world in 2017 exceeds the numbers that were enslaved in 19th century America. Many of these slaves today are perniciously sold and used as sex slaves.
Yet despite such horrific numbers, America was doing far better with its racism problem in recent times, until the last decade or so. We even had a majority of Americans vote for our first black president. While I agreed with very little of President Obama’s policies and had seen many disturbing signs that had cracked his polished veneer while he was still running for the White House, I too was buoyed by the fact that America in its decency could indeed elect a person of color to the presidency. Indeed, I would venture that the timing in our history was such that Barack Obama’s color was absolutely an asset to his election. (Never mind the foolishness of voting for someone simply because of their color, instead of their qualifications.)
I was greatly disheartened, however, to see that rather than further unite our nation as Americans, President Obama squandered the good will bestowed on him by a significant majority and decided to insert himself into more localized incidents; indeed he was often prompted to do so by the complicit mainstream media once again. The net result was that instead of us all simply being “Americans”, he further divided us into hyphenated Americans, most especially black-Americans and white-Americans.
Confederate statues? Nothing but participation trophies for losers. 😉 I applaud Mr. Paine’s common sense to reject vandalism and suggest that they belong in museums.
Once again Mr. Paine chooses to focus more time blaming Obama for racism than for actual racists. Here’s a clue. “Both sides” are not equally to blame. Obama is not Trump. BLM is not the Klan. Antifa are not Nazis. Follow the trail of dead bodies if you can’t figure out the difference.
It is an inexcusable evil that, when left unchecked, has resulted in the dehumanization of others so that they could be exploited, enslaved, and even murdered.
Exactly. So why allow that hate speech to go unchecked?
As Mr. Paine noted elsewhere:
When it becomes a problem, as Thomas Jefferson so stated, is when their actions, “pick my pocket or break my leg”.
How many broken legs and deaths in Charlottesville does it take to awaken Mr. Paine?
Mr. Paine understands it is a crime to threaten the president. It is a crime to slander and libel. Hate speech directed towards others based on color of someone’s skin, their ethnicity, gender, their country or continent of origin, or their sexual preferences should be in that group of exceptions. No harm to the republic or to the free speech of Americans could ensue from this distinction.
Hate speech is not free speech. It threatens others. Mr. Paine marginalizes the harm of hate rhetoric that leads to death. Klan and Nazi “free speech” has resulted in terrorizing and killing of many Americans. Why should that hate speech be a protected right when “fire” shouted in a theater is not? Both have deadly consequence and have NOTHING to do with the intended purpose of our First Amendment.
Our First Amendment rights are intended to allow us freedom of religion, a free press, and to peacefully gather and speak truth to power, NOT to facilitate racism, bigotry and violence toward minorities.
Dave, I am going to write this for you ONE MORE TIME. I am not equating the past murders of the KKK with the BLM crowd today. That said, BLM is absolutely a racist group responsible for assault, battery, hate speech, vandalism, and even inciting violence against police and others. They are a hate group too. Antifa absolutely is.
The difference is that every decent person understands and rejects the KKK as being a hate group. They don’t all realize that BLM is too, and Obama was complicit with this by inviting some of their leadership to a White House forum. He would NEVER give a platform like that to the KKK or neo-Nazis, nor should he. So why is he doing so with racist anarchists like the BLM?
AGAIN, ALL groups that spew hate, racism, and inciting of violence should be condemned by all Americans. Why don’t you join me in doing so instead of excusing one side for their actions just because their body count of murders isn’t as great as the other side’s…. yet?
“Mr. Paine understands it is a crime to threaten the president. It is a crime to slander and libel. Hate speech directed towards others based on color of someone’s skin, their ethnicity, gender, their country or continent of origin, or their sexual preferences should be in that group of exceptions. No harm to the republic or to the free speech of Americans could ensue from this distinction.” ~ Dave Dubya
You are right and I agree that it is a crime and should be so to threaten the president (even though this seems to be less of an issue now that Trump has been threatened by numerous Hollywood celebrities, and even some leftist politicians.) I further agree that slander and libel should remain illegal.
Where we part ways is when you start becoming the “thought police” and telling people that they don’t have the right to be bigots and racists in their speech (Notwithstanding if they are inciting violence in their words or actions). THAT is the difference. No, it is not legal to falsely shout “Fire!” in a crowded theater. Nor is it legal to incite others to violence or destruction. One is entitled to their thoughts and opinions though, even if it offends you, Dave. Even if it offends me.
If we make it illegal to espouse a contrary point of view or an opinion that we find repugnant, then at what point does it stop that the powers that be ascertain that defending conservative (or liberal) dogma is offensive and therefore also illegal? Sure… no harm can come to our republic.
“That said, BLM is absolutely a racist group responsible for assault, battery, hate speech, vandalism, and even inciting violence against police and others. They are a hate group too. ”
They absolutely are not. They absolutely have not. Can you demonstrate where BLM is responsible for these things? For inciting these things?
I am sad that you can’t see the difference between the KKK and an organization advocating for equal treatment by police under the law. Simply repeating over and over that BLM is as bad as these white supremecists does not, in fact, make it true. Reality doesn’t warp and bend to how we want it be.
Otherwise I would have won the last Powerball. And the one before that.
“Klan and Nazi “free speech” has resulted in the terrorizing and killing of many Americans.”
Yes or no?
BLM “free speech” has resulted in the terrorizing and killing of many Americans.”
Yes or no?
Equating the Klan and Nazis with BLM is pure moral relativism. The same with blaming Obama as much as, or more, than Trump for race problems. This elevates the greater evil.
Unfortunately Mr. Paine sees BLM only as a raging horde of Black Thugs coming to take his freedom. Mr. Paine has blamed Obama for meeting with BLM and accused BLM of “assault, battery, hate speech, vandalism, and even inciting violence against police and others”. NO EVIDENCE cited. As usual, the belief will suffice. And still BLM is being equated with the evil BLOODY Klan!
Here’s another difference between the Klan and BLM. One group directs hate at minorities. The other group, under the First Amendment, protests government policy and legal tolerance of police unaccountability for killing Blacks. And yes, it happens.
The subject is hate speech, not policy differences, not political speech, and not about what “offends” me.
Nowhere did I suggest limiting free speech on valid public issues. Nowhere did I suggest limiting free conservative speech on taxes, war, the military, law enforcement (A BLM issue) or opinions on government matters. They can even call liberals commies. It is a lie, but that is how they roll.
Here’s the deal. Let the racists freely talk among their kind, in their places. That is their right. However, it should NOT be abetted with public permits. They openly incite hate. In case you can’t make the logical connection, inciting hate encourages violence. How many real cases need I cite?
How many broken legs and dead victims will it take? As you ask, at what point does it stop?
I would hold the same standard to any group espousing hate. “Kill/hate whitey” is just as bad as “kill/hate Jews, and Kill/hate Liberals”. None of this should be protected speech in PUBLIC. That is my opinion. Just who’s “Rights” are protected? And who is terrorized?
Think about it. You don’t have to agree. I won’t silence you.
But we live in Trump times, so hate will always be encouraged, and equated with its far more peaceful opposition.
Here are some links and particularly pertinent excerpts from articles that support my point, Mr. Dubya and Trey.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437694/black-lives-matter-hypocrisy-cheering-violence
Last week, a gunman in Dallas opened fire on police at the end of a Black Lives Matter demonstration, killing five officers and wounding several others. Micah Johnson, the shooter, told a hostage negotiator that he was angry on behalf of Black Lives Matter and “wanted to kill white people, especially police officers.” Johnson’s Facebook page revealed an affinity for black nationalism, and he followed a Facebook group called the “African American Defense League,” which encouraged followers to “ATTACK EVERYTHING IN BLUE EXCEPT THE MAIL MAN” and “sprinkle Pigs Blood.”
http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/16/corporate-disavowal-black-lives-matter/
Who remembers the slaying of Kentucky State Trooper Joseph Ponder by Black Lives Matter marcher and “Hands up, don’t shoot” slogan-spreader Joseph Thomas Johnson-Shanks in September 2015?
One of the surviving policemen in the Baton Rouge massacre filed suit last month against Black Lives Matter and laid out the case against its leaders, who “not only, incited the violence against police in retaliation for the death of black men shot by police, but also did nothing to dissuade the ongoing violence and injury to police. In fact, they justified the violence as necessary to the movement and war.”
The permanently disabled cop’s lawsuit recounts escalating riots, arson, and plundering after the police-involved deaths of Michael Brown and Freddie Gray in Ferguson, Missouri, through the ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, and leading up to the Obama administration’s embrace of Black Lives Matter’s leaders.
After the meeting, Black Lives Matter leader DeRay McKesson responded to questions about his movement’s culpability for inciting violence by asserting that his “people take to the streets as a last resort. … So when I think about anything that happens when people are in the street, I always start by saying, ‘People should not have had to have been there in the first place.’”
As the lawyers for the Baton Rouge cop, who must remain anonymous to protect his family, properly concluded: “These statements were a ratification and justification of the violence.”
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/09/02/exposing-black-lives-matter-for-what-it-is-promotion-of-cop-jilling-n2046941
“The DNC joins with Americans across the country in affirming ‘Black lives matter’ and the ‘say her name’ efforts to make visible the pain of our fellow and sister Americans as they condemn extrajudicial killings of unarmed African American men, women and children,” the solidarity resolution states.
The day after the resolution was passed, BLM activists in Minneapolis chanted, “pigs in a blanket, fry em’ like bacon,” as they marched down the street. This rhetoric also came just one day after the execution of Texas Sheriff Deputy Daron Goforth while he was filling up his patrol car at a local gas station. If you aren’t familiar, “pigs in a blanket” refers to the bodies of dead police officers in body bags.
…In December the man who killed two NYPD officers while they were eating lunch in their patrol car posted on his Instagram page, “Going to put pigs in a blanket” before carrying out his killings. In Ferguson when news of the NYPD slayings hit, BLM protestors chanted and celebrated, “Pigs in a blanket!” We saw the same over the weekend in Minneapolis. This isn’t happening in one place, it’s happening around the country. BLM activists are using their own words and inspiration from convicted cop killers to promote the assassination of police officers.
Finally, it’s important to point out two-thirds of the African American community flat out reject BLM or strongly disagree with the movement’s tactics.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/1419/ten-times-black-lives-matter-activists-hurt-their-amanda-prestigiacomo#
The preceding link has a list of some of the worst excesses of the BLM movement, including some video.
So Dave, ONCE AGAIN, I am wasting my time with your agitating race-based nonsense. I realize some of the sources I cited are not from leftwing mainstream media, so I am sure you can discount all of those.
That said, I am NOT equating body counts of the KKK to BLM. The heinous and evil acts of the KKK far outstrip the BLM in its century of murders. What I am saying is that shouldn’t we as Americans – ALL of us – denounce all violence, hatred, and racism, regardless of the source?
I have always personally denounced the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups on the right. I also denounce the hate and violence from leftist groups. To you, that makes me a Trumpist racist? Why is it seemingly impossible for you to disavow the violence and hate on the left, Dave? Why is hate and violence OKIYAD? Why don’t we simply all live by the golden rule? How about that for a change, and then we can take politics and race out of it? That is all I have been saying all along. I don’t know why it is so hard for you to hear and understand that. I am certain that nothing will change with your incessant rhetoric though – yet again.
I’ve seen you pull out that Michelle Malkin piece on your own blog, T.Paine. It wasn’t convincing then. It’s not convincing now. A disabled cop is pointing the finger at Black Lives Matter and affirms they had something to do with the violence directed towards him. I look forward to hearing more and seeing how his lawyers prove his unsubstantiated claim. Maybe all black people are by default members of BLM? Maybe that’ll be their tactic?
Maybe direct me to something that isn’t an opinion piece from Wannabe Ann Coulter.
Mr. Paine is wondering when I disavowed violence. I feel I have been ignored.
Ahem, I, Dave Dubya, shall hereby disavow all unprovoked aggressive violence upon innocent humans, whether perpetrated by those on the left, or the right, or anywhere in between.
Is this where I say, “All lives matter”?
I’m going to agree with Mr. Paine’s concerns and problems with a “Black Lives Matter Movement”. Some people do bad things in the name of this “movement”.
Mr. Paine may not understand that I am referring to the Black Lives Matter organization, not the “movement”.
What we have here regarding Black Lives Matter is the absence of a mutually agreed definition of terms.
Mr. Paine and his fellow white conservatives see BLM as a movement. They see mobs of angry threatening blacks. And no doubt some are. As with any march, any person, or criminal, can join. And a few chanted “pigs in a blanket”, all of 30 seconds!! These people are not members of the Black Lives Matter organization.
Let’s look at that fact again. These people are not members of the Black Lives Matter organization.
Any black criminal can say “pigs in a blanket” and be tagged a “Black Lives Matter member”.
Never mind the thug would have no clue about the people of the BLM organization. Any marcher can be tagged a ‘Black Lives Matter supporter” as well. And maybe he was, but he wasn’t a member, and certainly not following their principles. This is important to understand.
A man filled with resentment and hate killed policemen. This is a fact. He had no association with BLM. Did you see just learn that fact? Here it is again. He had no association with BLM. Saying he was “angry on behalf of Black Lives Matter” is meaningless . Like Ted Bundy claiming porn made him kill.
No matter. Black Lives Matter is targeted and declared “racist” by angry white conservatives. They don’t know, or care, about the organization, the founders, or their principles.
Black Lives Matter was founded by three women in reaction to the racism behind the stalking and slaying of Treyvon Martin, and the failure of the justice system to punish the killer. It was like his life didn’t matter…Really. It was like Trayvon’s life didn’t matter. And racists cheered for the killer.
I would suggest Mr. Paine go to the BLM website and look for the hate, the “pigs in a blanket”, or whatever demons of racism that lurk in his imagination.
I dare him to learn about the women, and tell us why Obama’s meeting with them means he agrees with their “anti-cop” racist agenda. This must be what he believes by all the “race-agitating” accusations.
The Black Lives Matter founders are Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi. They are nothing like Klansmen or Nazis.
They expanded their social media project into a national network of over 30 local chapters between 2014 and 2016. They are advocates of Women and LGBTQ equal rights.
Nothing like the Klan. Nothing like Nazis.
The overall Black Lives Matter movement, however, is decentralized and has no formal hierarchy.
Again. Nothing like the Klan. Nothing like Nazis.
And the Black Lives Matter organization is called racist by conservative white men. And they don’t even know what it is.
A criminal Black Lives Matter supporter is different from a criminal Trump supporter..how? The black guy’s group are the racists, of course.
This is Trumpworld, after all.
Honestly, if I’m expected to read Michelle Malkin and visit the Daily Signal, the Daily Caller, the Daily Stormer (and fill my browser with their lovely tracking cookies/malware) or whatever websites I’m given as citations/resources, the least I can expect of those engaging in the discussion is to do some research into BLM that doesn’t involve Michelle Malkin’s filling up the “conservative” bubble with more content-free hot air.
Trey,
It is obvious to informed people that the far Right is indeed a “Bubble Cult”, trusting only their sources and believing without question in their alternative reality.
Science itself takes a backseat to their dogma. Trump has amplified their ignorance to an unprecedented level in our modern era.
We can lead a cultist to water, but they will only drink their koolade.
I just… I don’t know. I’m making the effort of following the chain of thought in these discussion. I go to the resources provided to me. I go to these unapologetically right-wing sources, which is an ok perceived bias to have because it’s the right kind, but people can’t be bothered to actually venture outside of their comfort zone to do a little bit of researching on their own in turn? I don’t like these sources, I don’t want to give them a click, but in the interest of honest discussion I do it. Some folks I engage in don’t believe I look at them, and I know for a fact sources I provide are dismissed.
I go to these sources and sites in case I am wrong and to learn something. It’s ok to be wrong. It’s ok to change your mind. It’s not ok to force yourself to be ignorant. When BLM is repeatedly disparaged as a hate group akin to the KKK or that Obamacare is the worst thing since all the other things Obama looked at, we’re activey trying to be ignorant.
Rather than provide a link with something worth consuming, I get Michelle Malkin skreeing against strawmen. She’s got reach. She’s got contacts. ‘Where is the Corporate Disavow of Black Lives Matter?’ she asks in the title of the piece. Why isn’t she using her reach and contacts to actually find that out? The entire article she probably penned in an hour could have been made better if she actually answered her own question by finding people in the corporate world and asking them. No, instead we’re going to decry these unsourced anectdotes. I’m supposed to accept this paid rant as an indictment on BLM and ignore actual news sources that go into details that don’t actually project the situation as scary scary black people.