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In response to: You Didn't Do That

Ryan [Visitor] — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 19:51:58 +0000

"If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

Those who quote this without the context distort Obama's meaning. It is really that simple.

Liberals do not have to perform a "charitable reading" to understand the point, which is explicitly stated in his own speech:

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

Those who misinterpret his quote when they know the full context either have a strong bias against Obama or seek to dishonestly discredit him with gotcha journalism.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

Burr Deming [Member] — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 15:54:59 +0000

Thank you, Heathen, for a nice try.

The punctuation does make clear that the words come in different sentences although repeating the same message.

I don't need to "claim" anything. I simply look to the words that were spoken, going past the re-edited, sliced up clip Republicans like to show.

Although I like you and I think you write well and creatively, I confess that I enjoy watching you twist and turn, trying to "prove" what is so clearly a departure from plain truth.

Please feel free to continue.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

The Heathen Republican [Visitor] — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 15:46:21 +0000

Republican re-editing is a lie. Obama's words are exactly what is being used. As are the words you quote, but that comes in a different sentence. And YOU WILL find them in the version in my post (as I'm sure you know) and others.

Normally you're an honest guy, Burr, so why are you fighting this battle? Why can't you admit the words are Obama's and Republicans are quoting them accurately? Go right ahead and claim that Obama meant roads and bridges, but stop claiming that Republicans are re-editing or taking him out of context. You're making yourself into a liar.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

Burr Deming [Member] — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 00:00:15 +0000

Thank you, Heathen.

If I am fighting a battle, I am finding an easy time of it. I have simply to skip past the Republican re-editing and go directly to Obama's words.

It could not have been clearer if Obama had explicitly made the point that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

Oh wait ... Those are his words, aren't they? You just won't find them in the Republican cut and splice version.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

The Heathen Republican [Visitor] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 23:38:39 +0000

Burr, I can't believe you're really fighting this battle. I addressed the key points in my own post (http://heathenrepublican.blogspot.com/2012/07/on-context-gaffes-and-misstatements.html), which I know you're likely to have read.

The sentence has not been taken out of context. "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that."

"That" is singular and clearly refers to the object of the sentence, "a business." I understand the Democratic spin (which you happily repeat here) that Obama was referring to "roads and bridges." If he was, he misspoke and used poor grammar.

That is the most charitable explanation you can give. You can't say the statement is out of context. You can't say conservatives are skewing Obama's words. To say so is demonstrably false.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

T. Paine [Visitor] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:40:43 +0000

I appreciate your concern, Mr. Deming, but I feel comfortable in the truth being well-served and I will thus stand by my original legitimate comment. Thank you, sir!

In response to: You Didn't Do That

Burr Deming [Member] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:25:43 +0000

Thank you for your hope, T. Paine.

I hate to rain on your parade, but you pin that hope on two premises that are speculative at best.

One speculation is that most Americans saw President Obama's original comments. If they have only the doctored videos to go by, they may well draw erroneous conclusions.

The other speculation is that most Americans believe the GOP lie. Conservatives are certainly eager to believe it.

It is reasonable to think that one of those must be true. It is plausible that both are true. I think it's a stretch to conclude much of anything beyond that some lies are believed.

My own additional observation pertains, I think. Some conservatives are so caught up in their Obama hatred, they are prepared to believe most anything that will support that hatred. Which is to say that you may want to reconsider your use of the word "legitimately" in "most all conservatives legitimately missed this point..."

In response to: You Didn't Do That

T. Paine [Visitor] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:52:16 +0000

Actually, your statement gives me great hope, my friend.

If the meaning is manifestly clear, and yet I and evidently most all conservatives legitimately missed this point anyway, I can only assume based on concurring public opinion with my take on this issue that there must be far more conservatives than what I originally thought lived in this country. That does indeed bode well for our country and its saving come November!

In response to: You Didn't Do That

Burr Deming [Member] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:25:40 +0000

Thank you for your comment, T. Paine.

Actually, the meaning is manifestly clear without any splitting of semantic hairs. All that is needed is to go past the Republican re-edits and take a brief look at what President Obama actually said.

I know it's hard for conservatives to do that, but give it a try.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

T. Paine [Visitor] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:23:40 +0000

OH! Now I see what your semantic argument is! I admittedly did not realize that "That" is the infrastructure, and not the businesses themselves. (Never mind that we Americans did build "that" too via our taxpayer dollars).

That said, your position does make some sense now. It is kind of like what the definition of "is" is.

Are you sure you aren't channeling your inner David Axelrod in trying to defend that statement, sir? I don't think most other Americans understood it the way you did either.

I suppose I could be wrong though too, because I admittedly don't hear all of those "racist" dog whistles that our conservative candidates are blowing either.

Cheers to you regardless!

In response to: You Didn't Do That

Burr Deming [Member] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:27:01 +0000

Thank you, T. Paine.

The fact that you disagree with President Obama does not transform what he actually said into the caricature that Republicans have spliced and edited it into.

The "that" in "you didn't build that" refers to infrastructure that supports a business, not the business that was built.

The fact that you consider the GOP ads to be aired in the service of liberty and patriotism does not make them truthful.

The lie put forward by Republicans is still a lie.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

T. Paine [Visitor] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:50:24 +0000

Burr, you are a good man, but you are absolutely wrong on this, sir. If anything, putting the rest of the context into Obama's statement only further damn's him and proves the contention that Republicans were making.

Obama’s collectivist view is that individual entrepreneurs and would-be businessmen would not be successful without government. I guess that is his justification for increasing taxes, fees, mandates, and fines on them.

Yes, government did provide the roads and highway infrastructure. Yes, our tax payer dollars go to pay teachers, police, firefighters and other public servants. But government provides those necessities for EVERY American, regardless if they take the risk and put forth the hard work to try and build a business. One can sit at home, watch The View and Oprah, all the while collecting a welfare check too. That dependency on government so that one doesn’t have to work IS indeed something that government built.

It is the rugged individualism that has yet to be fully extinguished by nanny-state liberalism that inspires many Americans to try to create something better. It is those folks, through their own hard work and investments, that take advantage of the services and infrastructure that are available to ALL Americans, that go out and never cease trying that build those businesses. They do build that. Government doesn’t give them any advantage or help them anymore than they do the average person. Those courageous folks simply have the tenacity and drive to build something on their own, despite the detrimental impact and hurdles that government builds to put in their way.

Yeah, Obama meant exactly what Republicans are saying he meant. Adding the additional context in no way changes that fact, sir.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

Burr Deming [Member] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:20:42 +0000

Thank you, Heathen.

If history concludes that President Obama said what conservatives say he said, then history will have to have been written by people who believe houseflies are flying houses.

In response to: You Didn't Do That

The Heathen Republican [Visitor] — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:10:46 +0000

I think history will show that "You didn't build that" will be the moment Barack Obama jumped the shark.