In response to a comment by T. Paine
Just like with MSNBC’s reporting, I guess I need to correct the record again.
True or false? Does Planned Parenthood sell body parts from aborted babies?
Yes they do, as per the gruesome statement from “Dr.” Nucatola I quoted in my article. Do you assert that this fact was misrepresented by me, Mr. Deming?
Next, I have long requested that the half billion dollars of tax payer money spent each year to subsidize this grotesque institution is removed. Finding that they give the body parts of the babies they kill to “medical research” only further convinces me that this needs to be done NOW.
Last, the pertinent parts of the videos in question that I wrote my article upon were accurate and in complete context. It is amazing the contortions that the left will go through in order to defend their actions. The fact of the matter is Planned Parenthood is a scandal-ridden organization that kills millions of unborn with the assistance of over $500 million annually in tax payer subsidies. Further, they often abort these children in such a way as to be able to “save” the victims’ organs for medical research. Dr. Mengele would be proud, despite President Cecile’s apologies and protestations to the contrary that they are providing “services”. Woe to those that call evil, good and good, evil.
- T. Paine, July 26, 2015
As John would advise, you need to argue what you believe for the reasons you believe it. Your problem is with abortion, period. You object to using fetal tissue for research because you object to abortion. You object to the doctor's dispassionate discussion because you object to abortion. If that is the case--if you cannot provide, as I requested, an argument against using fetal tissue in research without reference to the wrongness of abortion--then I ask that you refrain from making statements like this:
"Finding that they give the body parts of the babies they kill to 'medical research' only further convinces me that this needs to be done NOW."
Don't make it seem like there's more to this than there really is.
We call this a faux scandal not because we are OK with abortion or the use of fetal tissue in research, but because the video offers no new information except the falsehood that it is edited to suggest. It is no more a reason to be outraged than any other video one might take at Planned Parenthood, since we all know that these procedures take place there.
"If 'researchers' are in need of more fetal stem cells derived from victims’ organs etc. for their 'valuable' work, don’t you think that the likelihood of an increase in abortions will also be observed accordingly?"
You seem to be forgetting another party involved in the process: the mother. She chooses whether or not to have an abortion and she chooses whether or not to grant permission for the use of fetal tissue in research. No one is being forced to do anything, so whether or not researchers desire or need more fetal tissue for research should have little bearing on the frequency of abortions.
lled their victims, but does that mean that their scientific research in doing so should be discounted? By your logic, it is the same ghoulish thing."
Actually, it's the same thing according to your logic, since you begin with the premise that killing a fetus and killing (what I call) a person are the same thing. Since I do not, I can condemn Nazi behavior and approve of Planned Parenthood's actions without inconsistency. If you had taken even a moment to think about what you know to be my position from our previous exchanges on this matter, you wouldn't have bothered to say this. I know you're capable, so I'm not sure what to make of your consistent refusal to do so.
"On a tangent, most all of the greatest and most promising work done with stem cells to date has occurred with adult and umbilical cord cells rather than fetal stem cells. But that doesn’t fit into the Planned Parenthood altruistic narrative, does it?"
That's irrelevant to the "narrative." Even if it's true that "most all of the greatest and most promising work" occurred without fetal tissue, that does not mean that all of it did or that nothing good may come out of it in the future. And even if nothing ever came of it or ever will come of it, we are talking about people who don't regard abortion or the tissue harvesting as evil in the first place. Your point is not on its own a reason to condemn this research.
Ultimately, our moral analysis of this issue depends on the moral value that we assign to the fetus at a given stage in its development. You care about the fetus above all; some of us care more about letting the mother do as she wishes with her body; and some of us, concerned with sentience or capacity for pain or some other morally relevant characteristic that separates us from rocks, don't think that the fetus deserves any moral recognition at all for a fair amount of time.
Ryan generously contributes his insights to our debates. He can often be found at Secular Ethics, a site devoted to the application of reason to ethical behavior.
The courageous T. Paine is appreciated for taking on a Sisyphean task: persuading us of the virtues of conservatism. He can be found at Saving Common Sense.
In a biased poll? After fake edited videos?
From Tommy Christopher at The Daily Banter:
While Republican leaders and the conservative media continue to try to capitalize on the fraudulent video “sting” showing a Planned Parenthood official discussing fetal tissue donation over a salad, the rest of the world is apparently unimpressed with the entire spectacle.
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From Ron Reed at MadMikesAmerica:
A website that tracks mass shootings in the US had logged 203 through Wednesday. It hasn’t caught up with last night’s rampage in a Louisiana theater, but when it does, that will be No. 204—and yesterday was the 204th day of the year, the worst kind of synchronicity, notes the Washington Post.
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From Ted McLaughlin at jobsanger:
Donald Trump, and whether he really represents the Republican Party, seems to be the only news the major media want to report these days. But there is something else that should be worrying Republicans more than Donald Trump. It is the falling approval of their party by the general public in this country.
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From Last of the Millenniums:
‘At the start of the year, a group of 57 Native Americans students (third through eighth grade) from the Lakota tribe were taken to a minor league hockey match in Rapid City, South Dakota to celebrate their academic achievements’.
‘But what started as a field trip to reward the students quickly turned into a nightmare, when a group of drunk men in an executive suite dumped beer on their heads and yelled “go back to the Rez!”
‘Seven months later, only one of the perpetrators faces criminal charges...’.
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From PZ Myers at Pharyngula:
I’ve only just noticed that I have a fondness for food metaphors when talking about development — gastrulation is a peculiar way to make a jelly sandwich, neurulation is like rolling up a burrito, and somite formation is a meatball sub. They sort of illustrate the arrangement of the tissues involved, but of course they all have shortcomings…but then explaining how the metaphor doesn’t work can be just as informative as the metaphor itself.
For instance, early in its development, the vertebrate embryo consists of two epithelial sheets, the epiblast and hypoblast, pressed against each other like two slices of bread. That’s easy to visualize.
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Conservative T. Paine, at Saving Common Sense, is horrified by a video of a representative of Planned Parenthood selling body parts and wants legislators to take action. It may be that he hasn't heard from his Fox Newscasts that there were actually two videos and that both were heavily edited to show what was not really there.
The videos were faked, Mr. Paine. jobsanger has a shorter summary of the controversy that may save some reading time.
Come on! Invest 5 minutes in interplanetary beauty. Infidel 753 has discovered a video of what may come to Mars. It's based on photos from NASA, JPL, the University of Arizona, and the Goddard Space Flight Center Scientific Visualization Studio.
- Why do we have to do this, Sir? contrasts how theological conservatives and liberals interpret Jesus feeding the multitudes.
Been pondering over all the people on another planet that may be just like us. Not really a pleasant thought.
(CNN)NASA said Thursday that its Kepler spacecraft has spotted "Earth's bigger, older cousin": the first nearly Earth-size planet to be found in the habitable zone of a star similar to our own.
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From Joe Gandelman at The Moderate Voice:
Bad news for the GOP: the party’s favorability rating is in a nosedive and — by comparison — the Democrats are looking better to more voters. Results of a new poll by the respected Pew Research Center:
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to get episodes automatically downloaded.
How an officious airline counter employee taught me something important about Donald Trump and heroism.
The flight itself was fine. The journey was trial-by-official.
A business executive was on his way to conduct a training seminar in Chicago. He had angled for months for the opportunity and had finally gotten it. Executives from around the nation would be attending. It could be a hairpin turning point in his career. I was there to assist.
We had purchased tickets through a local travel agency. The rate was low and conditions were attached. The agent told us he was waiving those conditions. I remember pressing a little. The trip was important and I wanted to be sure.
From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
FERGUSON • City leaders announced Wednesday that they have selected a police commander in Glendale, Ariz., to be Ferguson’s next interim top cop.
Andre Anderson, 50, has spent 24 years with the force in Glendale — the same city from which the Ferguson City Council recently selected its interim city manager, Ed Beasley.
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Dylann Roof, the man accused in the mass shooting last month at a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, was indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury on 33 counts, including federal hate crime charges, Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced.
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Several Republican presidential candidates have claimed that Planned Parenthood is “profiting” from abortions. But the full, unedited video they cite as evidence shows a Planned Parenthood executive repeatedly saying its clinics want to cover their costs, not make money, when donating fetal tissue from abortions for scientific research.
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From The Moderate Voice:
Thursday June 4, 2015, my co-worker was listening to the first game of the NBA Championship. When I heard the announcement that the National Anthem was about to be sung, I walked closer to the radio. As the first notes were played, I placed my hand over my heart. My co-worker saw me and he, too, placed his hand over his heart. We stood silently, hands on our hearts, listening to the National Anthem of our country. That is not the first time I have stopped what I was doing and placed my hand over my heart when the National Anthem was sung.
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From Jon Perr at PERRspectives:
For the past five years, Republicans determined to gut federal spending have been warning that "we look a lot like Greece." A preposterous claim then, the charge is even more ridiculous now. Unlike Greece, the United States controls its own currency and has enjoyed economic growth even as Washington's national debt as a share of its GDP is only about half that of Athens. Since President Obama first took the oath of office, federal spending has been flat and the annual budget deficit was reduced by two-thirds. And while cuts at the state and local government level produced an anti-stimulus that dramatically slowed the American recovery, the U.S. has avoided the Greek "death spiral" of draconian austerity policies which inevitably lead to economic contraction and falling tax revenues and thus more austerity.
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From Human Voices:
The antics of Donald Trump make for good TV. That has been true for much longer than we've had to see him posing as a presidential candidate. It's hard for the tired and cynical public to get away from him but of course it's hard for the GOP to get away from him too. It's amusing to watch the Machine try to put a gilt frame around him, because while stirring up the muck and the creatures that live in it is what they excel at, those creatures can none the less be quite offensive to some of the people the GOP would like to court: Like Mexicans and voters who don't fear immigrants quite enough.
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From PZ Myers at Pharyngula:
Shall I give you an example? Here’s one I’ve actually heard from atheists: “Christians don’t really believe in God, because the god idea is stupid. They only go to church because they’re afraid of death/need social reassurance/were brainwashed.” Another permutation of that is that since the god idea is stupid, the only people who believe in a god are the really stupid people.
It’s a somewhat popular sentiment because, face it, once you’ve seen the illogic of religion and become an atheist, it can be hard to understand how people can still fall for that baloney, and we struggle to make sense of their irrational decision.
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From Tim's Thoughtful Spot:
Fifty-six years, six months, and fourteen days.
That sounds like a long time, and in terms of a single human life, it is. But in terms of humanity's lifetime, it's barely a blink of an eye. And I think that's the proper context, because it's the length of an era that ended today. By the time I finish writing this, I expect that we will have heard, one way or another, about whether or not the New Horizons spacecraft survived its encounter with Pluto. That encounter brings to a close the first era of humanity's exploration of the Solar System.
I place the beginning of this era on the first of January 1959, with Luna 1's flyby of the Moon. Luna 1 had been intended to hit the Moon, not fly by. But since these were early days yet, barely more than a year after the very first Earth satellite, rockets and guidance systems weren't all that reliable.
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