XML FeedsWhat the Constitution Means Depends on the Founder
By JMyste on Jan 22, 2013 | In News | 3 feedbacks »
| by John Myste |
In Response to Burr Deming's Effect of Anti-Gun Safety Rhetoric
Myste, in 1774 England banned importation of muzzle loaders to the American colonies. In 1775 they attempted to confiscate privately owned guns. We all know what happened in 1776.
- F&B, January 21, 2013
You do know, do you not, that Obama is not trying to ban muzzle loaders? You do know, do you not, that the Obama favors the Second Amendment? You do know, do you not, that the American Revolution was not about gun control? Except for those three facts, however, your point was pretty good.
Civilization in a form that we would clearly recognize as such has been around for roughly 8-10,000 years.
- F&B
Holy crap! That’s a long time.
“It has been about 250 years since the American Revolution. We haven't changed that much.”
I was just telling my slave that same thing yesterday. After that, I whipped him for dropping the scoop in the well again and then I blew out the candle and told my wife she would get just as good if she burns that coon again.
Revolutions and Civil Wars happen around the world continuously.
It’s because of gun control.
I do not believe the eventual need to defend our constitution is beyond the realm of possibilities.
You should get your muzzle loaders and other assault weapons now, while supplies last. They will work well against heat-seeking missiles and drones.
The intent appears to be that the Federal government will not attempt to control what types of weapons citizens may own.
Where did you get that idea? Did you make it up or do you just sense that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would have wanted the people, whom they felt superior to in most respects, to own nuclear weapons?
There is no indication that the Founders would have limited any weapons that we have today.
What were Thomas Jefferson’s exact words about nuclear weapons?
As usual, the Constitution was meant to limit the power of the Federal government, not to limit the power of the People.
What the Constitution was “meant” to do, depends on which Founder you talk to. Madison did not even want a Bill of Rights. Alas, you do not get to choose the Founders’ intention, Blessed be His Holy Name.
John Myste frequently participates in discussions across the internet. His contributions here are always appreciated.
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3 comments
I'm surprised I have to explain these comments further, I thought they were pretty much self-evident.
Muzzle loaders were state-of-the-art weapons at the time, i.e. England tried to prevent colonists (Americans) from owning state-of-the-art weapons. I thought the parallel was drawn to the current situation sufficiently clearly.
Obama may claim to support the 2nd Amendment but he does not - his actions speak louder than his words.
Yes, the Revolution was not about gun control (although that obviously was a small part of it since the 2nd Amendment was included in the Constitution a few years later).
England attempted control and confiscation of guns because they saw the rebellion coming and tried to prevent it. When our government attempts confiscation, it will be for similar reasons.
OK, I'll take your approach...
Myste: "...depends on which Founder you talk to." Which Founding Father have you talked to Mr Myste?
Myste: "It’s because of gun control." No, it's because of poor leadership, corruption, and tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson on the Bill of Rights: "...to guard liberty against the legislative as well as the executive branches of the government."
And: "...a bill of rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies..."
And: "A bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular; and what no just government should refuse..."
So, according to Thomas Jefferson, the Bill of Rights should guarantee (among other things) that We The People are entitled to have the capability to stand up against the armies of any government on earth (including our own).
Madison didn't want a Bill of Rights because he thought it was superfluous. He said that the Constitution outlined specifically what the federal government was authorized to do; Nothing more and nothing less. The need to enshrine individual rights was not necessary to his mind, because if the government followed the Constitution, there would be absolutely no need. Anything that was not codified in the Constitution was simply assumed to be left for the States or the people to decide. He didn’t realize that we would have congresses and presidents on down the line that found the Constitution to be a document of “negative liberties” that restrict what the beneficent government could and should do. He didn’t realize that the Constitution would be wantonly disregarded. He certainly didn’t think that the supposedly unnecessary Bill of Rights would be routinely infringed and violated by our elected officials, and none more so than the current occupant of the White House.
Yep, We the Piss-ant and low-information-voting People may not have tanks, jets, and nukes to fight off our tyrannical government so I guess there really isn’t a point in us wanting to hold on to small arms either, huh?
“Obama may claim to support the 2nd Amendment but he does not - his actions speak louder than his words.”
He has done nothing to suggest he was not in support of it, and he has declared outright, his support of it (more recently), so I am not sure why you would not realize that he supports it.
“England attempted control and confiscation of guns because they saw the rebellion coming and tried to prevent it. When our government attempts confiscation, it will be for similar reasons.”
You are not paying attention. Our government very recently did try confiscation and that was not the reason. Get off the muskets. Please try to keep up.
“Which Founding Father have you talked to Mr Myste?”
Now you are just being silly.
“So, according to Thomas Jefferson, the Bill of Rights should guarantee (among other things) that We The People are entitled to have the capability to stand up against the armies of any government on earth (including our own).”
How does the ownership of assault weapons achieve this again?
“Madison didn't want a Bill of Rights because he thought it was superfluous. He said that the Constitution outlined specifically what the federal government was authorized to do.”
Mr. Paine,
Madison did not want too much spelled out because he was in a situation where he was forced to compromise.
“He didn’t realize that the Constitution would be wantonly disregarded.”
He never considered Bush in an fashion, as you point out.
“He certainly didn’t think that the supposedly unnecessary Bill of Rights would be routinely infringed and violated by our elected officials…”
True, he considered that we should not have one to violate.
“Yep, We the Piss-ant and low-information-voting People may not have tanks, jets, and nukes to fight off our tyrannical government so I guess there really isn’t a point in us wanting to hold on to small arms either, huh?”
So, you are against Obama’s desire to protect our rights to hold small arms. Can you tell me why you disagree with Obama on this?
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