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Comment from: JMyste [Visitor]
“Did you know that James Madison originally argued against including a Bill of Rights in that Constitution as he thought it was unnecessary? He said that the federal government was not authorized to do anything more or less than what was specifically enumerated within that document, hence our liberties should never be in jeopardy accordingly.”

He did not resist including them because it was “unnecessary.” There was a political war in progress and he was acting in the interest of his side. If Madison were here today, he would be more of a conservative, not a liberal. The Bill of Rights section is a liberal section that can often be used to promote liberal views of liberty. I think Madison knew this.

If it was merely a question of redundancy, Madison would not have been so grammatically (or stylistically) adamant as you imagine.
06/07/12 @ 08:45
Comment from: T. Paine [Visitor] · http://savingcommonsense.blogspot.com
Mr. Myste, if you speak of "liberal" as in the classical sense of the word, then I would agree with your characterization of the Bill of Rights. If you use the term in the modern context, than I find that to be ironic and not altogether accurate.

Further, if one stays away from revisionist history sources, you will find my characterization of Madison and his intentions with regards to the necessity of the Bill of Rights to be quite accurate.

"Don't argue with me. I don't have time to debate right now. Very tight deadline." :)

06/07/12 @ 09:42
See the bulk of my response in the link provided above. The rest of this comments contains scattered points.

"I would submit to you that one’s core principles should not be jettisoned simply as a means to an end for political expediency or to simply get along with the in-crowd."

In an ideal world, I would completely agree. In this world of people who do abandon their principles for political expediency, I take a more nuanced position.

Suppose that you are one of two candidates in an election. You know that one of your beliefs is highly unpopular, but also that your opponent's positions will cause great harm to your community. You have two options: reveal your position and lose the election, which allows you to be proud that you stuck to your principles, but leads to harm to your community; or conceal your position and win the election, which allows you to fight for the rest of your principles that are both beneficial and popular.

Both may be harmful in some way, but the latter is clearly preferable. Would it be better if you could be honest AND win the election? Of course. But that is not the scenario.

In any case, I didn't mean that principles should be sacrificed for convenience. They should be sacrificed when it is good to do so, which is when they interfere with their own purpose.

"When Bennett strayed from his avowed conservatism and continuously voted for decidedly left-of-center legislation, those voters who thought that they had a conservative senator championing their causes finally had had enough."

The trouble is that we don't vote on specific issues. It may be the case that Bennett lost because his opponent was much more conservative, but it might also be the case that people cared about a particular issue or set of issues more than anything else, that people simply liked his opponent's personality more, that his opponent's political ads and spending were more effective, that he said something that offended people, that Tea Party rhetoric was particularly effective in the area, etc. Of course, you know more about these politicians and their politics than I do, but the variables remain. This means that some--perhaps even many--of those who voted for Bennett might not approve of some of his positions. Indeed, if everyone voted on every issue, we would undoubtedly find that the public disagrees with the positions of some of those whom it elects. That is why I hate all talk of political mandates that are based solely on who was elected--and it is one of the problems of our political system.

"It is when we start passing draconian regulations intended to satisfy some small special interest group or make laws that are economically devastating which provide no net gain to the well-being of people that is at the kernel of the issue, in my mind."

We agree, but the agreement is superficial if we disagree over what constitutes "draconian" and "economically devastating" and "gain to the well-being of people."

"... trying to curb this naturally occurring gas that is VITAL for plant life on this earth."

Water is vital for humans, but in sufficiently large quantities, it is toxic. The point? Excesses of a good or even necessary thing are still excesses.

CO2 is important for plant life, but so are other conditions. The point? If CO2 sufficiently interferes with those other conditions, the plant life will not be "happy" that it has more CO2.

Come, now; climate change skeptics can do better than this.
06/07/12 @ 16:21
Comment from: JMyste [Visitor]
"Further, if one stays away from revisionist history sources, you will find my characterization of Madison and his intentions with regards to the necessity of the Bill of Rights to be quite accurate."

I realize that you find Republican philosophy "quite accurate." Madison made a philosophical statement about why he did not want the Bill of Rights. I would not characterize it as "accurate" or "inaccurate" as it is not falsifiable. I would characterize it as justification, but only if I continued avoiding revisionist history.
06/09/12 @ 12:13

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