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I get your point, Mr. Deming, and I think those folks that are pro-abstinence need to articulate their positions better than most have done in the past. Simply repeating the mantra without elaborating upon why one thinks it is true doesn't typically convince others that are doubtful or on the fence regarding the subject. In other words, one does nothing to help his cause with that tactic. That is akin to repeating that “it is just a revenue problem” when we all know it really isn’t.

As you alluded to, should we give up the moral high ground and admit failure right out of the box? I mean, after all, kids are just going to have sex anyways, right? Far better to try and protect them and teach them how to use condoms etc. right?

With that logic, why don't we just give bullet proof vests and rubber bullets to gang-bangers? I mean, after all, they are just going to shoot each other anyways. Why not try to protect them somewhat and make this inevitable action a little bit safer? Right?

I have a better idea! Why don’t we parents spend lots of time with our kids and bring them up in a moral fashion instead of in a morally relativistic one. How about we are present in their lives all the time so that TV and the media and friends aren’t teaching them about sex instead of us parents? How about we explain the possible consequences of un-married sex to them and show them the horrible examples that abound on the internet of making that wrong choice? How about we raise our children to be strong and fortified with personal dignity that will necessarily make such temptations as an easy decision against doing what they know will be bad for them in the long run? How about we love our children and answer their questions truthfully on this and other such topics so that they are armed with both knowledge and integrity when confronted with these natural human urges?

And if, God forbid, they have sex anyway, how about we lovingly but firmly hold them accountable for the erroneous decision so that it will hopefully not be repeated in the future. And that involves not allowing a “quick and easy” abortion if they are “punished with a baby”.

The funny thing about abstinence is that, with the solitary exception of Mary, it has worked every single time it has been tried.
08/25/11 @ 13:25
Comment from: JMyste [Visitor]
Those Republicans who reject government activism do not, for the most part, reject government solutions because they believe these problems do not exist. They believe these problems do not exist because they reject government solutions. At least on most things.

One of the best articles I have ever read, had the statement you just made as its thesis (not its thesis statement, but the concept was its thesis).

I highly recommend the article, which tries to understand why conservatives are unrelenting in the face of evidence. I am not suggesting that they are or they are not. As with most cases, my immediate thoughts were: “Wow this is really good and here is how I would refute it...”

That said, I added it a link buried deep in my website, because it is so well-argued.

Here is the article that seems as if it were the inspiration for your article, though I am sure it is not, since your article expresses a common Deming theme.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/fact-finders

Just the article title is appealing.

You cite an example of Perry’s mind being closed to prove your case. It has two problems:

1. If you prove Perry’s mind is closed, that does nothing to prove that Republicans are closed minded.


2. If you prove Perry’s mind was closed on this issue at this time, that does nothing to prove that Perry is closed-minded. I am certain that he is, but this does not prove it.

I could go find a liberal acting closed-minded to refute the assumption, but it a waste of my time unless your contention is that I would not be able to find such, and if I were, you would concede that liberals and conservatives are equally open-minded.

The phenomenon you describe applies to people, not people with a certain opinion. I do agree that it seems to me like it applies to people with conservative views more often. I know some conservatives who tell me that the opposite seems to be the case to them. Hmm. Perhaps they are just lying. After all, they are conservatives, and as we know conservatives lie. It’s in their handbook, right?

I highly encourage you to read the article I mentioned above. It almost convinces me of your position, and would certainly have done so if not for the brilliant rebuttal I imagined giving.

08/25/11 @ 13:40
Comment from: JMsyte [Visitor]
Mr. Paine,

You know I would rather chew the cud than dispute one of your claims, but this statement is no only tiresome, but absurd, when used in context:

“The funny thing about abstinence is that, with the solitary exception of Mary, it has worked every single time it has been tried.”

The funny thing is, that those who try to use abstinence to keep their children from having children end up with grandchildren much faster than those who admit that the desire to have sex is built in the human species and “marriage” is not built into the equation.

You have to admit there is a potential problem before you can solve it. The problem is not that everyone isn’t teaching their children abstinence. I know because if that were the problem, the solution would be for everyone to teach their children abstinence. If everyone did this, however, we would still have unwanted teen pregnancies, so the problem must be something else.

My own parent taught me to use abstinence as her approach. I can promise you, her solution failed. She tried teaching abstinence as a method of birth control and she was completely unsuccessful. However, I did not impregnate anyone, because I rejected her solution and used condoms, and always a second form of protection. Two forms of protection works very well.

If you want lots and lots of grandkids from many different mommies and daddies, then teach your children abstinence, which never fails to procreate accept when the children deny their human impulses and suffer to please you or their purported creator, which is not that often. Those who use teaching their children abstinence as a method of birth control do often fail, as they pregnant daughters will attest.

That approach makes the false assumption that avoiding something that it is human nature to not avoid is OK. It is OK for the parent, who experiences none of the symptoms of the plan. Children often have different ideas.

08/25/11 @ 13:51
Comment from: JMyste [Visitor]
Mr. Paine,

I just noticed this:

"Why don’t we parents spend lots of time with our kids and bring them up in a moral fashion instead of in a morally relativistic one."

What you mean is why don't we all raise our children the way T. Paine thinks God wants us to, right? That is also morally relativistic. It is relative to T. Paine's world view.

How should atheists and agnostics determine what is moral? I have answers, but I want to hear yours, as you continually condemn moral relativism in favor of the T. Paine Bible.

08/25/11 @ 20:06
Comment from: JMyste [Visitor]
"And if, God forbid, they have sex anyway, how about we lovingly but firmly hold them accountable for the erroneous decision so that it will hopefully not be repeated in the future. And that involves not allowing a “quick and easy” abortion if they are “punished with a baby”.

I have to agree with T. Paine on this one. If a teen makes a mistake, we should rape another unwanted child into existence in order to teach the teen responsibility.

If the teen continues her bad behavior, we can probably put her on the right track other ways, once the baby is born. I am thinking baby fingernails.
08/25/11 @ 20:11
Comment from: Will Hart [Visitor] · http://paranoiacstoogetalk.blogspot.com
The way that I understand it, we're so exceedingly close to being able to have virtual sex that maybe we can finally and mercifully put this son of a bitch to rest....At least that's what I'm rooting for anyway.
08/25/11 @ 22:02
Comment from: JMyste [Visitor]
Will,

Are you going to tell Volt about this wonderful invention, or are you just going to let him keep yapping about how horrible we are? I would tell him, but he will not believe me. I have lost credibility.
08/25/11 @ 22:22

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