Last week’s discussion of Gun Safety produced followup dialogue that ended with some unity of opinion.
Ryan begins with what we thought might become a provocative defense of firearms manufacturers.
I occasionally hear talk of wanting to hold gun manufacturers liable for the harm that others cause with their products. I don’t know how widespread this desire is, but it’s troubling for the same reason that it would be troubling to hold knife manufacturers responsible for what people do with their knives, car manufacturers responsible for what people do with their cars, drill manufacturers responsible for what people do with their drills, farmers responsible for what people do with their food (one could feed peanuts to someone fatally allergic to them, after all), etc. This sort of policy goes against basic moral principles regarding responsibility. It even comes across as a dishonest attempt to ban guns indirectly by putting gun manufacturers out of business.
Dave Dubya can often be counted on to vigorously advance the progressive side of debate.
Heroin dealers should be held accountable for selling heroin, not for what junkies do.
Gun manufacturers shouldn’t be held accountable for what people do with the guns. They should be accountable for manufacturing and selling weapons of war to civilians. As long as these weapons are legal and pumped into the population more deaths will result. It has become a clear and present danger to the public.
This is why law makers need to be held accountable for the deaths resulting from effectively legalizing weapons of war for civilians.
I won’t hold my breath for accountability on that front.
The propaganda of the NRA and GOP has been more effective than the message of the opposition. While opponents of such weapons proliferation employ facts, reason, and compassion, the NRA and GOP simply wrap the issue in fear, the flag, and freedom.
We know who always wins with this strategy.
We may always be free to salute the flag and invoke freedom, but we will never be free from the threat of mass killings by enraged Militia Amendment enthusiasts. Even the gun-totin’ Good Guys were terrorized and helpless in Vegas.
We will always live under the gun in the “land of the free”.
Ryan reacts, as he often does, with a reasonable exploration of an apparently opposing opinion.
You clearly don’t support the position I described, so I don’t have much to say in response. But I am curious about how you define “weapons of war” and thereby distinguish them from other guns. What factors come into play besides rate of fire?
But disagreement fades.
I’m not sure where we disagree. I thought I was expanding on your position that gun manufacturers shouldn’t be held accountable for what people do with the guns.
They are operating within the law, therefor I say lawmakers are ultimately accountable.
Both rate of fire and volume of fire are the factors. Bayonets used to be a factor but are antiquated and not relevant in mass killings.
Machine guns are weapons of war. Automatic rifles, essentially machine guns, are weapons of war. They are intended to be effective human-killing machines. The M16 was developed as a weapon of war. An AR15 is essentially the same rifle, and is easily converted into an automatic rifle, thus a weapon of war.
Magazines holding 30 or more rounds are also features of weapons of war.
These weapons are not used for hunting or needed for self defense.
It is not a society’s duty to keep gun manufacturers in business. Their duty is to public safety and public health. Proliferation of weapons and their destruction of life is very much a public safety/public health issue.
Humans are far too often not emotionally stable or morally grounded enough to have such weapons of war.
Confiscation is out of the question, but opening the floodgates wider is not the solution.
And there is peace in the valley.
There’s no disagreement.
Dave Dubya can often be found at Freedom Rants. Ryan often joins with Dave and other friends of the blog to provide insight – occasionally combined with a bit of heat.
Have a safe weekend.