Edith Windsor, the gay-rights activist who fought for, and achieved, a Supreme Court ruling for same-sex marriage, died yesterday at age 88.
Wondering why a few conservative friends are less than impressed.
15 thoughts on “Fondly Remembering Obama and Edie Windsor – 9/13/2017”
Comments are closed.
I wonder if Edith Windsor would have met with, or even been invited by President Obama in his first term to the Oval Office. You know… back when he still was FOR traditional marriage… before it became politically expedient to change positions on a “core value”.
Sometimes people really do evolve, T. Paine.
Interesting to me that conservatives challenge President Obama’s motives.
As I recall, Barry Goldwater opposed allowing gay people into the military.
Until he didn’t.
He became a champion for gays. (“You don’t need to be ‘straight’ to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight.”) He demanded that President Clinton stand firm against discrimination.
Do you recall snide comments from opponents about his political expedience or his core values?
You don’t understand, Burr. You’re supposed to stand firm to every original decision you make in your life. That’s called values. You’re never supposed to change your mind despite new evidence, new opinion, new information. Values. Remember that. You never make a wrong decision. You just dig your heels in until people give up and accept your reality is the right one.
That’s how I convinced myself that going to Taco Bell the other night was really the right choice. Despite my body’s protestations to the contrary.
I was unaware Obama was not FOR traditional marriage, especially since he has been in one for so long.
I suppose in a black and white world, tolerance for gay marriage means opposition to heterosexual marriage.
How about the multiple divorces and cheating by Trump and Limbaugh? How do their examples support traditional marriage?
With my three decades being faithfully married to one woman, I feel so conservative and traditional compared to those icons of far Right ideology.
But if I have learned from Mr. Paine’s clear-headed judgment, I am apparently no longer FOR traditional marriage. Perhaps I need to listen more to Trump and Limbaugh for guidance in these matters.
I knew that I would be rebutted with the “evolved mindset argument” on this one. And there are indeed many cases where new evidence comes to light and can indeed cause one to change his mind.
I know I am being cynical here, but in the case of President Obama, I think the new evidence that came to light was the boost he would get from the LGBTQ special interest groups if he were to shift his stance on gay marriage. Power seems to be a core value for many politicians; Obama evidently is not immune here.
“Evolved mindset argument”? As in “I changed my mind?” The same considered turn of opinion soon experienced by the overwhelming majority of the country?
So the President merely engaged in a cold, cynical exercise?
The sum total of evidence presented by conservatives is internal. They hate the guy, and always have, for some secret reason.
What boost are you referring to? He changed his opinion on Gay Marriage after he ended Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. He changed his opinion on Gay Marriage after the Matthew Shepard Act which expanded the definition of Hate Crimes to include sexual orientation and gender identity. Obama ran in 2008 with part of his platform being to repeal DOMA. So why so cynical? Oh. Right. A person just can’t change their mind.
As I said, when new evidence comes to light that exposes your previously held opinion as being wrong, then the wise person will adjust his or her opinion accordingly.
That said, there typically exists core beliefs that are axiomatic and intrinsic to the very being of who a person is. Those core axioms should not be changed for whimsical or trendy reasons, like just because the rest of society thinks it is now hip to support gay marriage, for example. “Well everyone else is doing it, so I might as well too!”
Yes, President Obama changed his opinion on gay marriage, I believe for political reasons. It is no different than Mitt Romney having changed his opinion on being pro-choice to pro-life for seemingly political reasons too. Neither articulated substantive reasons or a clarifying pivot point for having made such a core change. Because of that, I am inclined to think that those changes were made out of political expediency.
Last, don’t confuse my disagreements on policy and some of the morally questionable actions of Obama with my hating him. I don’t hate him. Neither do I respect him though.
How about what many of us went through?
Gosh, it never occurred to me before. It really IS unfair to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
Anita Bryant, and later Jerry Falwell, did not present new evidence. Only raised my awareness a little. Same effect on others.
From my dad, many years ago: “Jerry Falwell really turned me around. I used to think homosexuals were perverted. Now I want to be one.”
Not evidence-based.
Also not whimsical or trendy, or particularly hip.
Sometimes people change core beliefs once they recognize them as simple, previously unquestioned, bigotry.
They leave behind those sad creatures who are incapable of that sort of self-examination.
One other thing:
You may think I’m superficial, T. Paine.
But that’s only on the surface.
Trey, that is exactly right. Obama changed his mind to garner more political support from the LGBTQ sector to boost his re-election chances, in my opinion.
This isn’t a matter of saying, “No, I changed my mind. I would rather have ham instead of a roast beef sandwich.” Gay marriage, to most people, is a defining axiomatic value. To President Obama it was a throw-away issue that could get him a boost in the electorate…. again, in my opinion.
“They leave behind those sad creatures who are incapable of that sort of self-examination.” ~ Burr
I can only speak for myself, of course, but when it comes to my core axioms, I can give a full accounting of why it is that I believe as I do and the evidence to support those opinions. In knowing myself more than superficially (that was funny, by the way) I am not easily swayed by the latest cultural trends and mercurial public opinion.
When presented with solid evidence though, I am capable of changing my mind on even core axioms. After all I was once an atheist…
Thank you, T. Paine. Friends, co-workers, and even fellow congregants often forget that I am hilarious.
The fact that you have been able to change your mind on core beliefs means there is still hope for you.
Now we just need to find some way to pull you over to the dark side.
I too, allowed my mind to be opened on LGBTQ issues. Where I’m from, gays kept a low profile and I didn’t understand them or their issues.
I later learned they were just as human, and as decent as anyone. Allowing them to marry is in no way harmful to traditional marriage. It just irks the hell out of unenlightened religious bigots and hypocrites, who more than likely had sex outside of marriage.
Maybe Obama changed his position for political purposes, but it would make no sense. He didn’t gain or lose votes because of it. That is conjecture, and no cases were cited as evidence.
But the benefit of the doubt never goes to the enemy, while the worst of motives will always be assigned to those hated most.
Gays and Obama are high on the Right’s list of hated people. And Hillary. She’s the devil incarnate, but unenlightened bigots and hypocrites can’t cite any indecency on her part comparable to Trump.
And it doesn’t matter. Hate trumps compassion and reason. Bigotry offers comfort and a sense of superiority, while equality threatens them.
Dave you really are a caricature of the fringe leftist. You are like a character from a really bad SNL skit, sir. Its often truly funny, until I remember that you are actually being serious.
when new evidence comes to light that exposes your previously held opinion as being wrong, then the wise person will adjust his or her opinion accordingly.
Mr. Paine’s knowledge is as vast as his wisdom is probing and thorough. This may be why he insists the Pope has been duped by the Global Conspiracy of Evil Climate Scientists.
While flying Sunday over areas in the Caribbean decimated by Hurricane Irma Pope Francis said,
“Man is stupid,” referencing a passage in the Old Testament, according to the The New York Times and The Associated Press. “When you don’t want to see, you don’t see.”
A correspondent for Crux Now had a slightly different translation of the pontiff’s comments: “Man is a stupid and hard-headed being who doesn’t see.”
Francis said, “Those who deny this must go to the scientists and ask them. They speak very clearly,” he said, referring to experts who blame global warming on man-made activities.
He also said scientists have also clearly charted what needed to be done to reverse course on global warming and said individuals and politicians had a “moral responsibility” to do their part.
“These aren’t opinions pulled out of thin air. They are very clear,” he said. “Then they (leaders) decide and history will judge those decisions.”
“When you don’t want to see, you don’t see”… “a stupid and hard-headed being who doesn’t see”…Hmm. Why does this remind me of conservatives and Republicans?
Yes, Mr. Paine insists the Pope is misinformed and holds an incorrect opinion.
Mr. Paine also sees my “fringe caricature”, way out there… agreeing with the scientific community and the Pope.
As well as agreeing with most Americans on taxing the rich, environmental regulation, and preserving our social safety nets.
And finally, I agree with Obama’s change of opinion, declared “politically expedient” by Mr. Paine’s deeper understanding of his motives.
http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
In Pew Research Center polling in 2001, Americans opposed same-sex marriage by a margin of 57% to 35%.
Since then, support for same-sex marriage has steadily grown. And today, support for same-sex marriage is at its highest point since Pew Research Center began polling on this issue. Based on polling in 2017, a majority of Americans (62%) support same-sex marriage, while 32% oppose it.
And of course I agree with MOST Americans that climate change is real and human influenced. (FOX and Big Oil haven’t brainwashed most of us,) thank God…and the Pope.
http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us-2016/
Well, SOMEONE is out there on the fringe anyway. 😉